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	<title>Comments on: Latin America Makes an Impact at Copenhagen Amidst Conflicting Charges of Lula&#8217;s Leadership and ALBA&#8217;s Deep Dissatisfaction</title>
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	<link>http://www.coha.org/lulas-leadership-albas-sabotage-latin-america-makes-an-impact-at-copenhagen/</link>
	<description>COHA is an NGO specialized in monitoring Latin American and Canadian Relations for more than 30 years...</description>
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		<title>By: CoryMP</title>
		<link>http://www.coha.org/lulas-leadership-albas-sabotage-latin-america-makes-an-impact-at-copenhagen/comment-page-1/#comment-35281</link>
		<dc:creator>CoryMP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 03:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coha.org/?p=7555#comment-35281</guid>
		<description>I am convinced that ClimateScience has officially merged entirely with ClimatePolitics.  It has gotten to the point that we no longer question the validity of Global Warming and instead follow blindly the proposals of ClimateScientists.  The last century&#039;s global warming of about 1 degree F is not a consequence of human activities. This warming is primarily the result of a multi-century changes in the globe&#039;s deep-ocean circulation. These ocean current changes have lead to a small and gradual increase in the globe&#039;s temperature.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am convinced that ClimateScience has officially merged entirely with ClimatePolitics.  It has gotten to the point that we no longer question the validity of Global Warming and instead follow blindly the proposals of ClimateScientists.  The last century&#039;s global warming of about 1 degree F is not a consequence of human activities. This warming is primarily the result of a multi-century changes in the globe&#039;s deep-ocean circulation. These ocean current changes have lead to a small and gradual increase in the globe&#039;s temperature.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry Townsened</title>
		<link>http://www.coha.org/lulas-leadership-albas-sabotage-latin-america-makes-an-impact-at-copenhagen/comment-page-1/#comment-35240</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Townsened</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 23:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coha.org/?p=7555#comment-35240</guid>
		<description>Two articles that are a more honest account of the process than the ``blame China&#039;&#039; brigade (and the related blame ALBA brigade): &lt;a href=&quot;http://links.org.au/node/1426&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://links.org.au/node/1426&lt;/a&gt; &amp; &lt;a href=&quot;http://links.org.au/node/1429&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://links.org.au/node/1429&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two articles that are a more honest account of the process than the &#8220;blame China&#039;&#039; brigade (and the related blame ALBA brigade): <a href="http://links.org.au/node/1426" target="_blank">http://links.org.au/node/1426</a> &amp; <a href="http://links.org.au/node/1429" target="_blank">http://links.org.au/node/1429</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ethan</title>
		<link>http://www.coha.org/lulas-leadership-albas-sabotage-latin-america-makes-an-impact-at-copenhagen/comment-page-1/#comment-35239</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 13:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coha.org/?p=7555#comment-35239</guid>
		<description>Curiously absent from most discussions of climate change that pit China against the United States is any consideration of per capita emissions. Conservative figures show that per capita the US emits roughly four times as much as China, and ten times that of India. While not absolute, this nonetheless suggests the need for a shift in perspectives.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curiously absent from most discussions of climate change that pit China against the United States is any consideration of per capita emissions. Conservative figures show that per capita the US emits roughly four times as much as China, and ten times that of India. While not absolute, this nonetheless suggests the need for a shift in perspectives.</p>
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		<title>By: Guy Hursthouse</title>
		<link>http://www.coha.org/lulas-leadership-albas-sabotage-latin-america-makes-an-impact-at-copenhagen/comment-page-1/#comment-35238</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy Hursthouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 09:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coha.org/?p=7555#comment-35238</guid>
		<description>Jon, 
 
Thanks for the reply. I came across the article you link to shortly after finishing this piece. I must say, however, that having read it, I wouldn&#039;t change my position. 
 
China is to blame, it&#039;s plain to see. But it is by no means as singularly culpable as the post-COP15 spin operation (in particular the British one) has made it out to be. 
 
The author of that article makes the valid points, as do you, that China insisted on removing a limit on temperature rises and any legally binding elements. However, he also regurgitates what he calls Obama&#039;s offers of &quot;serious cuts&quot; of 17% of emissions on 2005 levels, or 3% using everyone else&#039;s measure. Put simply, this is not nearly enough to achieve anything like the 1.5 degree limit we need. With levels of commitment like this from such an important emitter, targets were never going to be reached even if the Chinese had allowed them to appear in the conference text. Moreover, if the US was &quot;obviously prepared to up its offer,&quot; then why did Obama arrive making veiled threats to China, leave levelling overt criticisms at China, and apparently not budge an inch on his original position? 
 
I agree with you about the ALBA; its members are at times prone to blindly attacking US initiatives simply on the grounds that they originated from Washington. But on this occasion, they are justified in pointing out the role of the US in the weakness of this deal. They may not have achieved much aside from preventing a formal approval of the accord, but really that&#039;s the point; they don&#039;t have the wherewithal. Unless the G77 as a bloc can come round to the idea that the only chance for real progress is if they hold out together against deals like this, then the point Ch&#225;vez et al were making will indeed end up as just more noise. But this time, we should lsiten to the noise. 
 
Ultimately, the problem of China is huge. The purpose of this article was to argue that the problem of the United States is pretty considerable too, a fact which has been obscured by spin, and which the ALBA has been wrongly attacked simply for pointing out. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, </p>
<p>Thanks for the reply. I came across the article you link to shortly after finishing this piece. I must say, however, that having read it, I wouldn&#039;t change my position. </p>
<p>China is to blame, it&#039;s plain to see. But it is by no means as singularly culpable as the post-COP15 spin operation (in particular the British one) has made it out to be. </p>
<p>The author of that article makes the valid points, as do you, that China insisted on removing a limit on temperature rises and any legally binding elements. However, he also regurgitates what he calls Obama&#039;s offers of &quot;serious cuts&quot; of 17% of emissions on 2005 levels, or 3% using everyone else&#039;s measure. Put simply, this is not nearly enough to achieve anything like the 1.5 degree limit we need. With levels of commitment like this from such an important emitter, targets were never going to be reached even if the Chinese had allowed them to appear in the conference text. Moreover, if the US was &quot;obviously prepared to up its offer,&quot; then why did Obama arrive making veiled threats to China, leave levelling overt criticisms at China, and apparently not budge an inch on his original position? </p>
<p>I agree with you about the ALBA; its members are at times prone to blindly attacking US initiatives simply on the grounds that they originated from Washington. But on this occasion, they are justified in pointing out the role of the US in the weakness of this deal. They may not have achieved much aside from preventing a formal approval of the accord, but really that&#039;s the point; they don&#039;t have the wherewithal. Unless the G77 as a bloc can come round to the idea that the only chance for real progress is if they hold out together against deals like this, then the point Ch&aacute;vez et al were making will indeed end up as just more noise. But this time, we should lsiten to the noise. </p>
<p>Ultimately, the problem of China is huge. The purpose of this article was to argue that the problem of the United States is pretty considerable too, a fact which has been obscured by spin, and which the ALBA has been wrongly attacked simply for pointing out.</p>
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		<title>By: Garrett Connelly</title>
		<link>http://www.coha.org/lulas-leadership-albas-sabotage-latin-america-makes-an-impact-at-copenhagen/comment-page-1/#comment-35237</link>
		<dc:creator>Garrett Connelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 04:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coha.org/?p=7555#comment-35237</guid>
		<description>Both articles are correct. The United States cannot win master chess with the rest of the world. Side-step and run for the touchdown. Eliminate Phantom Load. That is a real side-step for the plugged-in modern world. Conservation and frugality eliminates the need for all the worst old coal polluters. No need for nukes. Provides some time to plan next unilateral pollution management step, perhaps a flying leap into conservation. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both articles are correct. The United States cannot win master chess with the rest of the world. Side-step and run for the touchdown. Eliminate Phantom Load. That is a real side-step for the plugged-in modern world. Conservation and frugality eliminates the need for all the worst old coal polluters. No need for nukes. Provides some time to plan next unilateral pollution management step, perhaps a flying leap into conservation.</p>
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